Stolen wedding presents

Post by Oshiponga
Hello, I wonder if anyone could offer some advice?
A few weeks ago at my wedding reception, my wife and I had a number of
cards stolen whilst they were in the care of the hotel where the
reception took place.
Briefly, cards with vouchers and some cash were taken, by, we presume
a member of staff, after the gifts had been taken to a locked
conference room. The hotel say that only 2 members of staff had
access to that particular room.
We have reported it to the police who have made enquiries etc, but my
question is this: Is there any legal recourse possible against the
hotel, given that the gifts were taken into their care and we were
assured that the gifts would be safe?
Anyone any thoughts?

What are the hotels terms and conditions , many advise that you ake out
insurance cover

Can you prove that the hotel staff took the cards etc , just because
they had the keys does not mean that they stole the cards , its not
inpossible for a third party to gain access to conference rooms .

You would need to show neglience on behalf of the hotel not an easy
thing to do , by its very nature the hotel is not a secure place

does your house hold insurance cover this type of risk

Better luck in the future

Oshiponga

2007-04-22 15:07:50 UTC

Post by steve robinson
What are the hotels terms and conditions , many advise that you ake out
insurance cover

I assume that the hotel has a 'no responsibility' policy. However,
they took responsibility out of our hands by removing the gifts and
taking them to a locked room. They assured us, on the day before and
on the actual day that,

'we will lock things in the conference room, because thats safe'

Post by steve robinson
Can you prove that the hotel staff took the cards etc , just because
they had the keys does not mean that they stole the cards , its not
inpossible for a third party to gain access to conference rooms .

No, we can't prove that the hotel staff took anything, but my view is
that by taking the gifts away they have assumed responsibility for
them. Had they told me that they didn't want to assume this
responsibility they should have told me to remove the gifts and secure
them myself.

Post by steve robinson
You would need to show neglience on behalf of the hotel not an easy
thing to do , by its very nature the hotel is not a secure place

I'm thinking they have been negligent by not asking me to remove and
secure the stuff.

Post by steve robinson
does your house hold insurance cover this type of risk

Possibly, I'll look into that

Post by steve robinson
Better luck in the future

Many thanks, for your response and your wishes!

steve robinson

2007-04-22 15:57:31 UTC

Post by Oshiponga

Post by steve robinson
What are the hotels terms and conditions , many advise that you ake
out insurance cover

I assume that the hotel has a 'no responsibility' policy. However,
they took responsibility out of our hands by removing the gifts and
taking them to a locked room. They assured us, on the day before and
on the actual day that,
'we will lock things in the conference room, because thats safe'

Again difficlt to say whos responsible and how far the responsiblty
goes if it is indeed down to the hotel , in law they are responsible
for loss of guests belongings but liablity is limited to a very low
level £100 i think

If it was the staff , whilst at work then the hotel could be jointly
responsible , if some one has sneaked in then its down to you ,

Post by Oshiponga

Post by steve robinson
You would need to show neglience on behalf of the hotel not an easy
thing to do , by its very nature the hotel is not a secure place

I'm thinking they have been negligent by not asking me to remove and
secure the stuff.

No that doesnt amount to negligence ,

Post by Oshiponga

Post by steve robinson
does your house hold insurance cover this type of risk

Possibly, I'll look into that

Post by steve robinson
Better luck in the future

Many thanks, for your response and your wishes!

Peter Fox

2007-04-22 19:49:23 UTC

Following on from steve robinson's message. . .

Mr Robinson is writing complete drivel.

(1) If your goods are in the care of the hotel then they are responsible
for them unless they have _clearly_ stipulated otherwise. Even if the
small print says they won't take responsibility but the staff encourage
you at the time to take advantage of their 'care' because "it will be
safe".

(2) This might not extend to particularly valuable items that the hotel
staff were unaware of. For example if there was jewellery amongst lots
of other stuff then it is unreasonable to expect the hotel to take on an
exceptional risk. (Suppose you'd said - "But what about my jewellery
I'm not too happy about that", and the staff assured you they'd be happy
to take that risk then they're taking on the liability.)

(3) The issue is not one of liability but evidence. It must be quite
difficult to show conclusively that there was a pile of cards in a box
etc when the stuff was being put into the room. Also what was the
value?

Conclusion
The hotel is liable. Probably the staff are up to this sort of
criminality on a fairly regular basis. Sue.

IANAL

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the e-commerce business came to a .
***@eminent.demon.co.uk.not.this.bit.no.html
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

steve robinson

2007-04-22 21:34:03 UTC

Post by Peter Fox
Following on from steve robinson's message. . .
Mr Robinson is writing complete drivel.
(1) If your goods are in the care of the hotel then they are
responsible for them unless they have clearly stipulated otherwise.
Even if the small print says they won't take responsibility but the
staff encourage you at the time to take advantage of their 'care'
because "it will be safe".

rubbish , you would need to show neglience , if the hotel locked the
door then they have taken reasonable care , its unreasonable to expect
the hotel to have facilites to store a large amount of wedding gifts of
unkown value , the responsibity lies with the hirer of the room to make
sure they have adequate insurance cover (usally specified in all t c s
of hotels and conference centres)

If the staff did say it would be safer in here safer from what drunken
guests children playing , accidental damage

Post by Peter Fox
(2) This might not extend to particularly valuable items that the
hotel staff were unaware of. For example if there was jewellery
amongst lots of other stuff then it is unreasonable to expect the
hotel to take on an exceptional risk. (Suppose you'd said - "But
what about my jewellery I'm not too happy about that", and the staff
assured you they'd be happy to take that risk then they're taking on
the liability.)

Very unlikely hotel staff wuld make those comments

Post by Peter Fox
(3) The issue is not one of liability but evidence. It must be quite
difficult to show conclusively that there was a pile of cards in a
box etc when the stuff was being put into the room. Also what was
the value?
Conclusion
The hotel is liable. Probably the staff are up to this sort of
criminality on a fairly regular basis. Sue.
IANAL

Utter rubbish

--

Tommo

2007-04-23 08:11:35 UTC

rubbish , you would need to show neglience , if the hotel locked the
door then they have taken reasonable care , its unreasonable to expect
the hotel to have facilites to store a large amount of wedding gifts of
unkown value , the responsibity lies with the hirer of the room to make
sure they have adequate insurance cover (usally specified in all t c s
of hotels and conference centres)
If the staff did say it would be safer in here safer from what drunken
guests children playing , accidental damage

Very unlikely hotel staff wuld make those comments

Utter rubbish
--

You are both wrong I'm afraid, but by varying degress.

The hotel is a bailee of the goods. It has a duty to take reasonable
care of them, but it is up to the hotel to show that it did rather
than for OP to show that it didn't.

Incidentally, the wording of any clause purporting to exclude liablity
should be checked carefully - any ambiguity will be construed against
the hotel. Further, any clause that attempts to excude liability for
the dishonest actions of its staff would probably be deemed unfair.
The point about this is that if it is unfair the whole caluse is
struck down. So, if it purports to eclude laibility for staff
dishonesty it would probably not be enfroced even if the loss was due
to one of OP's guests.

steve robinson

2007-04-23 10:09:33 UTC

Post by Tommo

Post by Peter Fox
Following on from steve robinson's message. . .
Mr Robinson is writing complete drivel.
(1) If your goods are in the care of the hotel then they are
responsible for them unless they have clearly stipulated
otherwise. Even if the small print says they won't take
responsibility but the staff encourage you at the time to take
advantage of their 'care' because "it will be safe".

rubbish , you would need to show neglience , if the hotel locked
the door then they have taken reasonable care , its unreasonable to
expect the hotel to have facilites to store a large amount of
wedding gifts of unkown value , the responsibity lies with the
hirer of the room to make sure they have adequate insurance cover
(usally specified in all t c s of hotels and conference centres)
If the staff did say it would be safer in here safer from what
drunken guests children playing , accidental damage

Post by Peter Fox
(2) This might not extend to particularly valuable items that the
hotel staff were unaware of. For example if there was jewellery
amongst lots of other stuff then it is unreasonable to expect the
hotel to take on an exceptional risk. (Suppose you'd said - "But
what about my jewellery I'm not too happy about that", and the
staff assured you they'd be happy to take that risk then they're
taking on the liability.)

Very unlikely hotel staff wuld make those comments

Post by Peter Fox
(3) The issue is not one of liability but evidence. It must be
quite difficult to show conclusively that there was a pile of
cards in a box etc when the stuff was being put into the room.
Also what was the value?
Conclusion
The hotel is liable. Probably the staff are up to this sort of
criminality on a fairly regular basis. Sue.
IANAL

Utter rubbish
--

Thats not hard for the hotel to prove with staff statements , most
hotels have some form of cctv and security staff/commisioniares on duty
as well

Post by Tommo
Incidentally, the wording of any clause purporting to exclude liablity
should be checked carefully - any ambiguity will be construed against
the hotel. Further, any clause that attempts to excude liability for
the dishonest actions of its staff would probably be deemed unfair.
The point about this is that if it is unfair the whole caluse is
struck down. So, if it purports to eclude laibility for staff
dishonesty it would probably not be enfroced even if the loss was due
to one of OP's guests.

One of the problems you will come accross in many hotels is that the
hotel , the management team , staff , conference room facilites ,
events ,kitchens etc are all run by different companies trying to get
anything soughed is an absolute nightmare ,

Had an issue myself with comfort inns years ago , whereby the hotel was
owned by an indvidual who allowed sodexo to manage the hotel sodexo in
turn another company ran the kitchens , another organisation ran the
kitchen staff etc etc , trying to get paid o tracking responsiblity was
an absolute pita
--

"Bob_Latchford" @aol.com>

2007-04-23 04:12:44 UTC

Hi there.

Firstly ? An I know you hate the (I told you so, "Quote") but did you
check in the first instance as too whether the hotel were a (One Star),
(Two Star), (Three Star) or (Four Star) an were they insured against this
type of theft regarding the wedding presents. Did the hotel in question
carry insurance against this type of loss. In any case, ask the hotel
manager an you might be able to make a claim against the hotels insurers.

An then again read this. "Terms of Business" It may not apply but If I were
you I'd get a copy of the hotels regulations concerning this type of crime.
Read on....... My advice to you is this, Contact a solicitor as soon as
poss..

http://www.corushotels.co.uk/terms/index.asp

16. Liability

Other than for death or personal injury caused by the negligence of the
Hotel, the Hotel's liability to the Client is limited to the price of the
booking. Unless the Hotel is liable under the above clause, the Client
indemnifies the Hotel from and against any and all liability and any claims,
proceedings or damages resulting or arising from the booking, event or
function, the Client, guests or any outside contractors of the Client. The
Hotel will not be liable for failure to perform to the extent that the
failure is caused by any factor beyond its reasonable control. The Hotel
does not accept responsibility whatsoever for damage to, or theft from, or
theft of, vehicles parked on the hotel premises.

Bob

Hello, I wonder if anyone could offer some advice?

A few weeks ago at my wedding reception, my wife and I had a number of cards
stolen whilst they were in the care of the hotel where the reception took
place. Briefly, cards with vouchers and some cash were taken, by, we
presume
a member of staff, after the gifts had been taken to a locked conference
room. The hotel say that only 2 members of staff had access to that
particular room. We have reported it to the police who have made enquiries
etc, but my
question is this: Is there any legal recourse possible against the hotel,
given that the gifts were taken into their care and we were assured that the
gifts would be safe?

Anyone any thoughts?

Peter Fox

2007-04-23 08:09:04 UTC

Following on from Bob_Latchford's message. . .

Post by "Bob_Latchford" @aol.com>
Hi there.
Firstly ? An I know you hate the (I told you so, "Quote") but did you
check in the first instance as too whether the hotel were a (One Star),
(Two Star), (Three Star) or (Four Star) an were they insured against this
type of theft regarding the wedding presents. Did the hotel in question
carry insurance against this type of loss. In any case, ask the hotel
manager an you might be able to make a claim against the hotels insurers.
An then again read this. "Terms of Business" It may not apply but If I were
you I'd get a copy of the hotels regulations concerning this type of crime.
Read on....... My advice to you is this, Contact a solicitor as soon as
poss..

/Please/ don't witter on about 'claiming off their insurance' and 'if
they're insured then...' Insurance is completely irrelevant unless you
have a large claim for compensation against somebody who hasn't got the
money to pay. And anyway you claim from the principal not their
insurance company. (That's their business.)

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the borehole business dried up
***@eminent.demon.co.uk.not.this.bit.no.html
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

Toom Tabard

2007-04-23 07:51:45 UTC

Check with your local CAB. There is the Hotel Propietors Act 1956.
Certainly for hotel guests there can be a liability on the hotel for
compensation, particularly where the client has asked for the goods to
be protected and the hotel has undertaken to protect them. Whether it
applies to functions in hotels and the associated customers would need
further clarification.

Toom

steve robinson

2007-04-23 07:56:43 UTC

Post by Oshiponga
Hello, I wonder if anyone could offer some advice?
A few weeks ago at my wedding reception, my wife and I had a number
of cards stolen whilst they were in the care of the hotel where the
reception took place.
Briefly, cards with vouchers and some cash were taken, by, we
presume a member of staff, after the gifts had been taken to a
locked conference room. The hotel say that only 2 members of staff
had access to that particular room.
We have reported it to the police who have made enquiries etc, but
my question is this: Is there any legal recourse possible against
the hotel, given that the gifts were taken into their care and we
were assured that the gifts would be safe?
Anyone any thoughts?

The max pay out is something like £100.00 but is cover is limited to
guests only

--

Toom Tabard

2007-04-23 10:35:30 UTC

Post by Oshiponga
Hello, I wonder if anyone could offer some advice?
A few weeks ago at my wedding reception, my wife and I had a number
of cards stolen whilst they were in the care of the hotel where the
reception took place.
Briefly, cards with vouchers and some cash were taken, by, we
presume a member of staff, after the gifts had been taken to a
locked conference room. The hotel say that only 2 members of staff
had access to that particular room.
We have reported it to the police who have made enquiries etc, but
my question is this: Is there any legal recourse possible against
the hotel, given that the gifts were taken into their care and we
were assured that the gifts would be safe?
Anyone any thoughts?

The max pay out is something like £100.00 but is cover is limited to
guests only
--- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Thanks for that info - it does hinge on the wording of the act which I
don't have access to. just now

As a matter of general info, the £100 limit is a default, but doesn't
apply in many cases where the hotel employees are negligent, where the
hotel has specifically agreed to take charge of goods for safe-
keeping, or, indeed, in losses from clients' rooms where the hotel has
refused a request to take responsibility for goods.

Toom

steve robinson

2007-04-23 10:54:57 UTC